Page last modified: Saturday, 04-Jan-2025 18:05:45 EST

Back to R-U152

SNP Calendar / Timeline

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Long forms from ISOGG
TMRCA Estimates are now from Scaled Innovation

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long forms snps tmrca

• R1b1a1b1a1a2b U152/S28 2590 BCE
  • R1b1a1b1a1a2b. DF103 2510 BCE
    • R1b1a1b1a1a2b.. FGC4166 2100 BCE
      • R1b1a1b1a1a2b... FT383849 2060 BCE
        • span class='lform'>R1b1a1b1a1a2b.... BY39241 610 CE
          • R1b1a1b1a1a2b..... BY132363 690 CE
            • R1b1a1b1a1a2b...... BY129137 890 CE PRE MEDIEVAL
              • R1b1a1b1a1a2b....... BY121592 1050 CE L
              • R1b1a1b1a1a2b....... FT394701 1030 CE L

• R1b1a1b1a1a2b U152/S28 2590 BCE
  • R1b1a1b1a1a2b. S14469/FGC4183/DF103 2450 BCE
    • R1b1a1b1a1a2b.. FG668/FGC4166 2090 BCE
      • R1b1a1b1a1a2b... FT383849 2040 BCE
        • R1b1a1b1a1a2b.... BY39241 520 CE POST IRON AGE
          • R1b1a1b1a1a2b..... BY132363 670 CE
            • R1b1a1b1a1a2b...... BY129137 760 CE PRE MEDIEVAL
              • R1b1a1b1a1a2b....... BY121592 1050 CE L
              • R1b1a1b1a1a2b....... FT394701 1030 CE L

This subclade of R-U152 shows up consistently among men named Collins in County Cork, Ireland. The subclade in general has a notable presence in West Cork. These Collinses are different from R-CTS4466 Collinses, the latter haplogroup more well-known, more common in Munster, and likely a more recent arrival. However, the project is blessed with far more FGC4166 members so we know more about them.

The dataset on this page is challenging. It has only 7 records of expert level participants as of late 2022. Up to this point in time, the project has hypothesized that marker DYS389II (#12) might be used to split members in these clusters into more recent lineages. Now, that hypothesis is looking more precarious. For this reason, the separate clusters have been merged back into one. Some older analysis has been moved to an archives page so that members can refresh their memory with any previous thinking.

Since the last update, some more members in this dataset have done advanced Y testing. This has been an enormous help. A year ago we didn't know much about what lay ahead after FGC4166, now dated earlier than 2000 BCE. Now look at what we have! The results have forced some reconsideration of the data. Despite the new information, significant gaps nevertheless remain, for example, the roughly 2500 year gap over the Bronze Age through the Iron Age and after. We are now aware of a split that occurred, probably some time during the second millennium. Apparently, the paternal line ancestors of these members lived within reasonable proximities to each other, apparently for many centuries. This gave time for their SNP stream to split and for each branch to spread.

The Corca Laidhe project is investigating the possibility that the FGC4166 Collinses could have been the O'Cuilin as written in the Genealogy of the Corca Laidhe. That project hypothesizes that these Collins men are descended from an older more indigenous population in southern Ireland, whose ancestors came from Central Europe to explore Ireland for minerals such as copper. Cork and Kerry have ancient mines as well as more modern ones. This sounds applicable to R-U152.

Project members in this now merged cluster show relationships to each other, though they seem somewhat distant overall. Subsets of these members do not share obvious STR mutations that could signal a closer, more recent relationship. No real correlations have been found between STR mutations and terminal SNPs.

This data is in Cluster 1810 inside the FTDNA results.

SNP Time and Geography Maps Back to Top

The locations pinned on the first map are based on the estimates provided at Scaled Innovation (Rob Spencer). Collins men carrying the two terminal SNPs - FT394701 and BY121592 - are geographically dispersed and intermingled with each other in County Cork.

The dark blue dots on the map below approximate the ancestral origins of expert level participants. As of October 2022, two participating members carry one terminal SNP, two members carry another, and four have not done advanced Y testing. Terminal SNP labels won't appear on the map until we know more.

Haplotype Table

FTDNA reviewed the markers of #33477027, found errors with DYS437 and DYS438, and made the necessary adjustments. Haplotype Table 1, Genetic Distance, and TMRCA tables have been updated. A further review will be done when additional members in this cluster become expert level participants.

Table #1 Haplotypes of R-FGC4166 Collinses
relative position	1	2	3	4	5-6	7	8	9	10	11	12	13	14-15	16	17	18	19	20	21	22-25	26	27	28-29	30	31	32	33	34-35	36	37	38	39	40-41	42	43	44	45	46	47	48	49-50	51	52	53	54	55	56	57	58	59	60	61	62	63	64	65	66	67	68	69	70	71	72	73	74	75	76	77	78	79	80	81	82	83	84	85	86	87	88	89	90	91	92	93	94	95	96	97	98	99	100	101	102	103	104	105	106	107	108	109	110	111	relative position
Short Tandem Repeat Markers (STRS)	DYS393	DYS390	DYS19	DYS391	DYS385	DYS426	DYS388	DYS439	DYS389I	DYS392	DYS389II	DYS458	DYS459	DYS455	DYS454	DYS447	DYS437	DYS448	DYS449	DYS464	DYS460	Y-GATA-H4	YCAII	DYS456	DYS607	DYS576	DYS570	CDY	DYS442	DYS438	DYS531	DYS578	DYF395S1	DYS590	DYS537	DYS641	DYS472	DYF406S1	DYS511	DYS425	DYS413	DYS557	DYS594	DYS436	DYS490	DYS534	DYS450	DYS444	DYS481	DYS520	DYS446	DYS617	DYS568	DYS487	DYS572	DYS640	DYS492	DYS565	DYS710	DYS485	DYS632	DYS495	DYS540	DYS714	DYS716	DYS717	DYS505	DYS556	DYS549	DYS589	DYS522	DYS494	DYS533	DYS636	DYS575	DYS638	DYS462	DYS452	DYS445	Y-GATA-A10	DYS463	DYS441	Y-GGAAT-1B07	DYS525	DYS712	DYS593	DYS650	DYS532	DYS715	DYS504	DYS513	DYS561	DYS552	DYS726	DYS635	DYS587	DYS643	DYS497	DYS510	DYS434	DYS461	DYS435	Short Tandem Repeat Markers (STRS)
member #	Marker Speed (Mutation Rate) Color Codes: X-Slow Slow Slow-Medium Medium Fast-Medium Fast X-Fast Unknown																																																																member #
MODAL	14	24	14	10	11-14	12	12	13	14	13	31	17	9-10	11	11	25	15	19	31	15-17-17-18	11	11	19-23	16	15	17	17	36-38	12	12	11	9	15-16	8	10	10	8	10	10	12	23-23	16	10	12	12	16	8	12	22	20	14	12	11	13	11	11	12	12	34	15	9	16	12	25	26	19	12	11	13	12	10	9	12	12	10	11	11	30	12	13	24	13	10	10	22	15	17	13	24	17	13	15	24	12	24	18	10	14	17	9	13	11	MODAL
27946119 R-M269	14	24	14	10	11-14	12	12	13	14	13	32	16	9-10	11	11	24	15	19	31	15-17-17-18	11	11	19-23	17	15	18	17	36-38	12	12	11	9	15-16	8	10	10	8	10	10	12	23-23	16	10	12	12	16	8	12	22	20	14	12	11	13	11	11	12	12	34	15	9	16	12	25	26	19	12	11	13	12	10	9	12	12	10	11	11	30	12	13	24	13	10	10	22	15	17	12	24	17	13	15	24	12	24	18	10	14	17	9	13	11	27946119 R-M269
29981950 R-M269	14	24	14	10	11-15	12	12	13	14	13	32	16	9-10	11	11	25	15	19	31	15-17-17-18	11	11	19-23	16	15	17	17	36-38	12	12	11	9	15-16	8	10	10	8	10	10	12	23-23	16	10	12	12	16	8	12	22	20	14	12	11	13	11	11	12	12	34	15	9	16	12	25	26	19	12	11	13	12	10	9	12	12	10	11	11	30	12	13	24	13	10	10	24	15	17	13	24	17	13	15	24	12	24	18	10	14	17	9	13	11	29981950 R-M269
87702215 R-M269	14	24	14	10	11-14	13	12	13	14	13	31	17	9-10	11	11	24	15	19	33	15-17-17-18	11	11	19-23	15	15	17	17	36-38	12	12	11	9	15-16	8	10	10	8	10	10	12	23-23	16	10	12	12	15	8	12	22	20	14	12	11	13	11	11	12	12	33	15	9	16	12	25	26	19	13	11	13	12	10	9	12	12	10	11	11	30	12	13	24	13	10	11	23	15	17	13	24	17	13	15	24	12	24	18	10	14	17	9	13	11	87702215 R-M269
51210024 R-BY121592	14	24	14	10	11-14	12	12	13	14	13	32	16	9-10	11	11	25	15	19	32	15-17-17-18	11	11	19-23	17	15	17	17	36-37	12	12	11	9	15-16	8	10	10	8	10	10	12	23-23	16	10	12	12	16	8	12	22	20	14	12	11	13	11	11	12	12	34	15	9	16	12	25	26	19	12	11	13	12	10	9	12	12	10	11	11	30	12	13	24	13	10	10	23	15	17	13	24	17	13	15	24	12	24	18	10	14	17	9	13	11	51210024 R-BY121592
89425637 R-FT394701	14	24	14	10	11-14	12	12	12	14	13	31	17	8-10	11	11	25	15	19	32	15-17-17-18	11	11	19-23	16	15	17	17	38-39	13	12	11	9	15-16	8	10	10	8	10	10	12	23-23	16	10	12	12	16	8	12	22	20	14	12	11	13	11	11	12	12	36	15	9	16	12	25	26	19	13	11	13	12	10	9	12	12	10	11	11	30	12	14	24	13	10	11	21	15	17	13	24	17	13	15	24	12	24	18	10	14	17	9	13	11	89425637 R-FT394701
24194899 R-BY121592	14	24	14	10	11-14	12	12	13	14	13	31	17	9-10	11	11	24	15	19	32	15-17-17-18	11	11	19-23	16	16	18	17	37-38	12	12	11	9	15-16	8	10	10	8	10	9	12	23-23	16	10	12	12	17	8	12	22	20	14	12	11	13	11	11	12	12	34	15	9	16	12	25	26	19	12	11	13	12	10	9	12	12	10	11	11	30	12	13	24	13	10	10	22	15	17	14	24	17	14	15	24	12	24	18	10	14	17	9	13	12	24194899 R-BY121592
33477027 R-FT394701	14	25	14	10	11-15	12	12	13	13	13	30	17	9-10	11	11	25	15	19	31	15-17-17-18	11	11	19-23	15	15	18	18	37-37	12	12	11	9	15-16	8	10	10	8	10	10	12	23-23	16	10	12	12	16	8	12	22	20	14	12	11	13	11	11	12	12	34	15	9	16	12	25	26	19	13	11	13	12	10	9	12	12	10	11	11	30	13	12	24	13	10	11	22	15	17	13	24	17	13	15	24	12	24	18	10	14	17	9	13	11	33477027 R-FT394701
member #	Distance from Modal Color Codes: Zero One Two Three+ No-Read																																																																member #

Genetic Distance

Very Tightly Related Tightly Related Related Probably Related Possibly Related Not Related

Very Tightly Related Tightly Related Related Probably Related Possibly Related Not Related Genetic Distances of R-FGC4166 Collinses 111 Markers ID MODAL 27946119   R-M269 29981950   R-M269 87702215   R-M269 51210024   R-BY121592 89425637   R-FT394701 24194899   R-BY121592 33477027   R-FT394701 MODAL 111 6 5 10 6 11 10 13 27946119 R-M269 6 111 7 14 6 17 12 17 29981950 R-M269 5 7 111 13 5 16 15 16 87702215 R-M269 10 14 13 111 12 15 16 17 51210024 R-BY121592 6 6 5 12 111 15 13 17 89425637 R-FT394701 11 17 16 15 15 111 18 19 24194899 R-BY121592 10 12 15 16 13 18 111 19 33477027 R-FT394701 13 17 16 17 17 19 19 111

TMRCA

TMRCA for R-FGC4166 Collinses
ID	MODAL	27946119   R-M269	29981950   R-M269	87702215   R-M269	51210024   R-BY121592	89425637   R-FT394701	24194899   R-BY121592	33477027   R-FT394701
MODAL	111	6-21	4-18	11-30	6-21	12-33	11-30	15-37
27946119 R-M269	6-21	111	7-23	17-40	6-21	21-47	14-35	21-47
29981950 R-M269	4-18	7-23	111	15-37	4-18	20-45	18-42	20-45
87702215 R-M269	11-30	17-40	15-37	111	14-35	18-42	20-45	21-47
51210024 R-BY121592	6-21	6-21	4-18	14-35	111	18-42	15-37	21-47
89425637 R-FT394701	12-33	21-47	20-45	18-42	18-42	111	23-49	25-52
24194899 R-BY121592	11-30	14-35	18-42	20-45	15-37	23-49	111	25-52
33477027 R-FT394701	15-37	21-47	20-45	21-47	21-47	25-52	25-52	111
Tightly Related Related Probably Related Possibly Related Remote

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